well, does it and if you think so, where are they?

i think most people do care and are just sitting on the edge of there seats waiting to see what happens with this election. is it over for the mad dictator ? or will he hang on to power no matter what ? and if he does what will be the out come. will there be a civil war, will the western world intervene, does the western world have the right to intervene ?

one of the reasons i think zimbabwe is not talked about as much as it should be is lack of information because the western media like the bbc is banned from that country,"out of sight out of mind". the news is only focusing on the election rather than the crimes that have been committed over there for the past 30 years. i dont think we will get to learn about those until Mugabe is removed.

i take it your from this country bigal. mabe you could educate us more on the subject, make us care mate..

here are a few links to some vids for your uneasy viewing pleasure.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=saHbs3mVbWw&...feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tXkBZBx7FH0&...feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tXkBZBx7FH0&...feature=related


some lighter moments which carry a very heavy message.

if you are up for some reading, then try and get a copy of "The Great Betrayal" by Ian D Smith..
it is heavy reading with lots of historical fact, but it outlines and documents the course of Southern Rhodesia through to Zimbabwe and all the political maneuverings that took place. it might be uncomfortable reading for some...

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Betrayal-Memoi...h/dp/1857821769

I'm sure BigAl will correct any bias within this, but it might form a simpler reading package than the Ian Smith book for most people on this site.

LINK

1. There is no oil there.
2. What is the solution other than dissuading the current south african government from continuing to support mugabe?

Unfortunately mugabe was not nelson mandela. You can vaguely see some(very twisted)logic to his original ideology, but converting very productive land to being completely non-productive for whatever ideological reason, apart from being stupid has obviously been very detrimental to the people of zimbabwe as a whole. I don't know much about ian smith's regime although I certainly remember it getting bad press, but it is hard to see how it could have been as repressive, corrupt and uninterested in the general welfare of the people as the current one.

funny songs that carry important messages.
fuck thats an expensive book.

why did they repo white owned farms ?

To keep black militants happy.

I think, that's what I understand.

thanks for the link. sounds like a country committing suicide .

thanks for providing the link yamaka.

unfortunately they left out the british govts complicity in that timeline and how much of what is going on now was entirely avoidable.

case in point..

the lancaster house agreement stated that any political organisation that was proved to be using illegal means to solicit votes in the 1980 elections was to be disqualified from contesting any further..

never guess who saw "you know" who using violence to sway voters then?
british observers! yes, thats who! and none of the rules were implemented which set mugabe on his path to madness...

makes me a little bit bitter and slightly irked....

Call me naive or stupid, I much prefer the direct stupid, but isn't most of Africa f**ked up? Outside of South Africa and maybe Egypt, aren't greedy, bastard dickhead running Africa? Slaughtering the oposition in pursuit of more power and money? Not to mention that many of these problems in Africa are between religious factions and political factions. Not with one group, your better dead to negotiate with.

I think many people care. Look what happen to Kenya. The real question is, do the power players (world leaders) care. The answer, no. The only thing power players care about is POWER & WEALTH.

africa is not fucked up, just operating on a different timeline.

Europe(western) has had a few thousand years to implement and improve democracy up to the point it is at today. Africa has never worked that way. due to relatively small scattered populations of autonomous tribes, a single strong leader or chief was the best way of survival. this is still reflected in africas attempts to embrace democratic ideals now. its just that once in power, most assume the role of chief and expect this to last for a lifetime. when challenged, they put down the dissent/opposition with any means necessary. thats how it used to work... until very recently when most of africa became independent or autonomous states and joined the UN etc

Europe has had much more time to get through the whole feudal/tribal system and the only real tribalism we see now is at football matches or other large sporting events. Africa has had a very short steep learning curve to deal with.
still dont make what goes on any easier to stomach tho'

heres another take on whats what and how it got there...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/picture_galler...1311501,00.html

Thanks for that Al. I know it seems like no one cares, but there are so many problems in the world, that it's so hard to get around all of them. Look at Africa, in itself - how many conflicts are going on there? It does seem like a basket case when you glance over the continent as a whole.
BTW, you're explanation about democracy and leaders in Africa was very interesting - I knew it was very tribal, but the way you explained it made me think a lot more about it.
I guess that we can all do small amounts of things - ( I donate money to Oxfam monthly and have done so for many years) and just try and educate ourselves about these matters.


Myself, I just think, what if the USA and it's allies spent all that money wasted on the conflict in Iraq on something as simple as trying to get clean water for everyone on the planet instead of wasting it in the way we have. How much better off would humanity be if something as simple as this was attempted. And how much good will would be generated towards western countries?

im a little confused, was the minority white rule a good or a bad thing ?

my old man was part of the peace keeping force sent out there from the UK during the tranistional period between Rhodesia -> Zimbabwe.

he was there quite a while and made some good friends - (mainly white farmers who he stayed with during his stay).

MOST of them (and their entire families) have since been murdered.

I gather it was fairly bad, just not nearly as bad as what succeeded it. I think there is something to be said for being able to feed your citizens.

Pressure mounts on Mugabe ahead of summit

Pressure mounted on Friday ahead of a regional summit on Zimbabwe for President Robert Mugabe to release results from an election almost two weeks ago which the opposition says ended his 28-year rule.

Leaders from the 14-nation SADC (Southern African Development Community) will meet in Lusaka on Saturday amid increasing concern and impatience over the long delay.

Human rights organisations and the opposition Movement for Democratic Change say Mugabe has unleashed a campaign of systematic violence in response to his biggest defeat.

Mugabe's ZANU-PF party lost control of parliament for the first time and the MDC says its leader Morgan Tsvangirai also won a parallel presidential vote, whose results have not been announced.

An opposition source said Tsvangirai met President Thabo Mbeki of Zimbabwe's powerful neighbour South Africa on Thursday to discuss the crisis. No details were revealed.

Tsvangirai earlier met ruling African National Congress leader Jacob Zuma, who rivals Mbeki as South Africa's most powerful man.

Zuma, abandoning some of Mbeki's trademark "quiet diplomacy" called for the results to be released.

"We urge all parties to respect the will of the people, regardless of the outcome," Zuma said in a speech on Thursday.

"COORDINATED RETRIBUTION"

Amnesty International said in a statement there were widespread incidents of post-election violence in Zimbabwe "suggesting the existence of coordinated retribution against known and suspected opposition supporters".

Amnesty called on SADC leaders to redouble efforts to avoid further deterioration of the human rights situation and urge the Zimbabwean Electoral Commission to release the results.

Human Rights Watch said the Lusaka meeting was SADC's "last real chance" to resolve the crisis in Zimbabwe, whose economy is in ruins.

A quarter of the population have fled to escape hyper-inflation of more than 100,000 percent, chronic shortages of food and fuel and 80 percent unemployment.

The U.S. based body also accused ZANU-PF of increasing assaults on opposition activists and polling agents.

Prospects of any result from the SADC summit are unclear. Critics say the body is a toothless talking shop, too in awe of liberation hero Mugabe to take firm action.

Mbeki, much criticised at home for not taking a stronger line, led failed SADC mediation last year. The crisis has flooded his country with Zimbabwean immigrants, raising xenophobic hostility towards them in South Africa.

But neither Mugabe, known for his uncompromising style, nor the electoral authorities seem ready to buckle. The electoral commission indicated late on Thursday that the results would have to await the outcome of an opposition legal case.

A High Court judge has promised a verdict by Monday on an MDC application to force release of the result.

Tsvangirai has accused Mugabe of a de facto coup to overturn the election result and called on African nations and Western powers to force him to step down, ending his uninterrupted rule since independence from Britain in 1980.

Even though the results remain officially unknown, Justice Minister Patrick Chinamasa said ZANU-PF was preparing for a Mugabe-Tsvangirai runoff -- necessary if neither won more than 50 percent of the first round vote.

Analysts say in a free runoff Tsvangirai, likely backed by third candidate and ruling party defector Simba Makoni and a breakaway MDC faction, would humiliate Mugabe.

But they believe the veteran leader plans to use his powerful security forces and irregular militias, including independence war veterans, to ensure a second round victory.

like most things, it had good and bad points.

good points..

stability and security, a well developed economy and infrastructure with sound economic growth despite years of sanctions.

bad points..

majority had no say in their own destiny. whites were given preferential treatment in all aspects of life, business etc.


as an aside, ID Smiths one policy that no-one seems to mention ever is that he was striving towards a gradual integration of black politicians who had been trained within the political system so that the country as a whole would survive any govt or power change without ruining its economic strengths...

a bit like training a kid to ride before sending them out on a ZX10....it didnt happen that way and this is the result...a broken country where millions are slowly starving..

Brown says world losing patience with Mugabe

Prime Minister Gordon Brown said on Saturday he was appalled by signs Zimbabwe's government was resorting to violence in an election standoff and warned President Robert Mugabe the world was losing patience.

Human rights organisations and the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) say Mugabe has unleashed a campaign of violence after the ruling ZANU-PF party lost control of parliament in a March 29 election.

Official results of a presidential vote -- which the MDC says its leader Morgan Tsvangirai won -- have not been announced.

"I cannot understand why it is taking so long to announce the result of the presidential elections," Brown said in a statement, his toughest so far on the Zimbabwe situation.

"I am appalled by the signs that the regime is once again resorting to intimidation and violence," he said.

"We will be vigilant. The international community will remain careful to do nothing to undermine efforts to secure an outcome that reflects the democratic will of the people of Zimbabwe," he said.

"But the international community's patience with the regime is wearing thin," he added.

Britain, the former colonial power, has often clashed with Mugabe, who has ruled Zimbabwe since independence 28 years ago.

Since the election, the government has measured its words carefully for fear Mugabe could portray its comments as interference in the country's politics, analysts say.

Officials say the onus is on Zimbabwe's neighbours to take the lead in resolving the political and economic crisis in the country.

"The Zimbabwean people have demonstrated their commitment to democracy. We, and the leaders of the region, strongly share this commitment," Brown said.

Zimbabwe's opposition called a general strike on Friday after officials said Mugabe would snub a regional summit called to discuss rising fears of bloodshed over the delayed election results.

As tension increased, police accused the MDC of "spoiling for a fight" and of deploying 350 youth wing members around the country. The police banned a Sunday rally by the MDC.
link