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May 13 2008, 09:58 PM
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#1
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![]() MotoGP Whore ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,419 Joined: 24-June 07 Member No.: 1,159 ![]() |
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/May/080513rn.htm
Interesting thoughts on TC from the best tuner in the business. |
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May 14 2008, 08:22 AM
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#2
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![]() . ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,109 Joined: 20-September 06 Member No.: 627 Favourite Rider: Rossi, Lorenzo, Katja Poengsen Favourite Track: Laguna Seca ![]() |
JB defines traction control as another set-up tool, albeit a powerful one. Back in 2002 when the Repsol team tested Honda's first traction control system at Valencia, JB recalls Rossi getting off the bike and saying "Don't tell anyone, but this isn't fair!" And that was a simple system that compared front and rear wheel speeds and retarded the ignition timing if they were different by more than a set percentage. Nowadays, TC systems are almost infinitely variable with maps that alter the electronics' intervention with respect to lean angle and corner speed differently for every gear.
it sure it made jb's job easer to keep 250hp tamed. not the first time he has spoken out of turn. he says its nothing really yet all the riders who have come up from 250 state it makes it to easy. i wonder if jb ever rides the bikes he talks about. -------------------- To consider Tom to be as knowledgeable as Jumkie, Rog or Pete is to overate him. His comedy value and ability to talk about being an engineer can be compared (and is argueably superior) to Pinky, but he would have achieved considerably less without Google.
Pete |
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May 14 2008, 08:30 PM
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#3
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![]() GP Winner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 390 Joined: 6-March 07 From: USA Member No.: 945 Favourite Rider: ![]() |
Thanks for the link. Traction control is not the end all be all of riding. For example it will do nothing to help a rider when it comes to braking -- where a lot of passing occurs anyways. It also won't help a rider who enters a corner too fast.
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May 14 2008, 08:56 PM
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#4
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![]() Track Legend ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 861 Joined: 6-September 06 From: Untied Kingdom Member No.: 594 Favourite Rider: Rossi, Sheene, Senna Favourite Track: Le Mans ![]() |
It's awfully written, & the occasional lack of quotation marks really put me off the article.
-------------------- "That smell, that 125 smell, smells like...victory. I love the smell of 2 stroke on the morining"
"Keep sexual posts, whether it be for each other or for each other's mothers, in private messages" somedamnwriter |
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May 14 2008, 09:05 PM
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#5
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World Champ ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 520 Joined: 24-May 07 Member No.: 1,099 Favourite Rider: Nicky Hayden Favourite Track: Laguna Seca, Istanbul (RIP) ![]() |
It's occasional lack of quotation marks really puts me off that article. Huh? -------------------- ===== 1st Transcontinental Stoner/Hayden Congress =====
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May 14 2008, 09:56 PM
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#6
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![]() Ghostrider ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,956 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Surrey, England Member No.: 188 Favourite Rider: Yuki Takahashi Favourite Track: Nordschleife ![]() |
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May 14 2008, 11:08 PM
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#7
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![]() . ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,109 Joined: 20-September 06 Member No.: 627 Favourite Rider: Rossi, Lorenzo, Katja Poengsen Favourite Track: Laguna Seca ![]() |
That depends if you consider engine braking control to be TC, it is there to aid traction afterall. thats a good point tom. we need help on this issue from our resident Tc expert -------------------- To consider Tom to be as knowledgeable as Jumkie, Rog or Pete is to overate him. His comedy value and ability to talk about being an engineer can be compared (and is argueably superior) to Pinky, but he would have achieved considerably less without Google.
Pete |
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May 15 2008, 02:11 PM
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#8
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![]() MotoGP Whore ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,398 Joined: 22-May 06 Member No.: 351 Favourite Rider: Rossi Favourite Track: Assen ![]() |
thats a good point tom. we need help on this issue from our resident Tc expert Btw: Where did he go? Not that I miss him, but it was occationally amusing reading his posts. Maybe he decided to leave us as his predictions gets increasingly amusing as well? Ot: In my book engine braking is part of the TC electronics. Seems to me that he does make to much of an effort to play down the TC role. Of course a cold tire slide can't be saved by TC. For TC to be of any help on a bike you will need to be on the brakes or on power and have a grip close to what you can expect under the existing conditions at least for now this seems to be a limitation. If you have a cold tire allready working on the very limit of it's grip only by lean angle, letting off the power will not be enough to make the tire grip again until it's by far to late -> high side. |
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May 15 2008, 02:27 PM
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#9
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![]() Blue smoker ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,396 Joined: 29-April 08 Member No.: 1,705 Favourite Rider: Too many, from Cal Rayborn to Cal Crutchlow, Johnny Rea to Gino Rea In particular - Sheeney, Saarinen, Fast Freddie, Rainey, Norick; and currently Dovi and JT Favourite Track: Phillip Island, Brands, Monza, Oulton Park and to visit, Laguna Seca ![]() |
In my book engine braking is part of the TC electronics. If you have a cold tire allready working on the very limit of it's grip only by lean angle, letting off the power will not be enough to make the tire grip again until it's by far to late -> high side. - Surely this is mainly governed by the slipper clutch? Which is exactly what happened to Lorenzo Hate to say it, but Casey would not have won his world championship last year were it not for the dominance of TC -------------------- "Buy the ticket take the ride" - Hunter S Thompson
"Stand on it until you can see God, then gently tap the brakes" - H.S.T "On a 500 you've got no engine braking. I only slide the front tyre when I get into a turn too hot, but this is how it goes: flick it in, pick up the feel of the tyre as it start moving. Then you lay it over a little bit more, the front slides and scrubs off speed. Saving a front slide is the tricky part. I use everything: the rear brake, my knee and a lot of upper body" Wayne Rainey 1991 |
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May 15 2008, 02:47 PM
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#10
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![]() Ghostrider ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,956 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Surrey, England Member No.: 188 Favourite Rider: Yuki Takahashi Favourite Track: Nordschleife ![]() |
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May 15 2008, 02:49 PM
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#11
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![]() Blue smoker ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,396 Joined: 29-April 08 Member No.: 1,705 Favourite Rider: Too many, from Cal Rayborn to Cal Crutchlow, Johnny Rea to Gino Rea In particular - Sheeney, Saarinen, Fast Freddie, Rainey, Norick; and currently Dovi and JT Favourite Track: Phillip Island, Brands, Monza, Oulton Park and to visit, Laguna Seca ![]() |
No rider would have their world title without the advantages of their machinary. I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean -------------------- "Buy the ticket take the ride" - Hunter S Thompson
"Stand on it until you can see God, then gently tap the brakes" - H.S.T "On a 500 you've got no engine braking. I only slide the front tyre when I get into a turn too hot, but this is how it goes: flick it in, pick up the feel of the tyre as it start moving. Then you lay it over a little bit more, the front slides and scrubs off speed. Saving a front slide is the tricky part. I use everything: the rear brake, my knee and a lot of upper body" Wayne Rainey 1991 |
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May 15 2008, 02:54 PM
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#12
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MotoGP Whore ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,040 Joined: 21-May 07 Member No.: 1,093 Favourite Rider: casey stoner, mick doohan, kevin schwantz, wayne rainey, garry mccoy Favourite Track: phillip island ![]() |
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May 15 2008, 03:01 PM
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#13
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![]() . ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,109 Joined: 20-September 06 Member No.: 627 Favourite Rider: Rossi, Lorenzo, Katja Poengsen Favourite Track: Laguna Seca ![]() |
I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean tom thinks rossi only got his titles because of the rc211v. he forgets no other riders could get a title on it. biaggi ukawa ect didnt get near rossi on the same bike. he also doesnt know rossi got a title on the nsr500 because he was still dripping off the end of his dads dick back then. -------------------- To consider Tom to be as knowledgeable as Jumkie, Rog or Pete is to overate him. His comedy value and ability to talk about being an engineer can be compared (and is argueably superior) to Pinky, but he would have achieved considerably less without Google.
Pete |
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May 15 2008, 03:06 PM
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#14
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![]() Ghostrider ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,615 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 714 Favourite Rider: Travis Pastrana & Nicky Hayden, The King & Son, Mr. Schwantz & Mr. Rainey, and Rossi/Stoner (cuz they're equal) & Benito Solis Favourite Track: Laguna Seca ![]() |
thats a good point tom. we need help on this issue from our resident Tc expert I just read this, hahahaha. -------------------- If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks!
PINKY AKA Tamada6, #27, #41, AP67, 27_2007, what's next? UPDATE: as of 1030am 4/16/09: Pinky AKA Putin UPDATE: as of 335pm 4/21/09: Pinky AKA D.Beattie UPDATE: as of 243pm 4/27/09: Pinky AKA Crafar_Doni98 UPDATE: as of 1020am 4/28/09: Pinky AKA MDX5 UPDATE: as of 1200am 5/02/09: Pinky AKA #27aus UPDATE: as of 1200am 5/31/09: Pinky AKA #27# UPDATE: as of 1200am 5/31/09: Pinky AKA phillipisland 12 ALIASES AND COUNTING, have I missed any? |
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May 15 2008, 03:08 PM
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#15
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![]() Ghostrider ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,615 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 714 Favourite Rider: Travis Pastrana & Nicky Hayden, The King & Son, Mr. Schwantz & Mr. Rainey, and Rossi/Stoner (cuz they're equal) & Benito Solis Favourite Track: Laguna Seca ![]() |
Btw: Where did he go? Not that I miss him, but it was occationally amusing reading his posts. Maybe he decided to leave us as his predictions gets increasingly amusing as well? He's busy, holding hands with Pinks; singing and praying for Stoner. -------------------- If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks!
PINKY AKA Tamada6, #27, #41, AP67, 27_2007, what's next? UPDATE: as of 1030am 4/16/09: Pinky AKA Putin UPDATE: as of 335pm 4/21/09: Pinky AKA D.Beattie UPDATE: as of 243pm 4/27/09: Pinky AKA Crafar_Doni98 UPDATE: as of 1020am 4/28/09: Pinky AKA MDX5 UPDATE: as of 1200am 5/02/09: Pinky AKA #27aus UPDATE: as of 1200am 5/31/09: Pinky AKA #27# UPDATE: as of 1200am 5/31/09: Pinky AKA phillipisland 12 ALIASES AND COUNTING, have I missed any? |
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May 15 2008, 03:10 PM
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#16
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![]() . ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,109 Joined: 20-September 06 Member No.: 627 Favourite Rider: Rossi, Lorenzo, Katja Poengsen Favourite Track: Laguna Seca ![]() |
He's busy, holding hands with Pinks; singing and praying for Stoner. consoling each other for the inevitable -------------------- To consider Tom to be as knowledgeable as Jumkie, Rog or Pete is to overate him. His comedy value and ability to talk about being an engineer can be compared (and is argueably superior) to Pinky, but he would have achieved considerably less without Google.
Pete |
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May 15 2008, 03:14 PM
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#17
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![]() Blue smoker ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,396 Joined: 29-April 08 Member No.: 1,705 Favourite Rider: Too many, from Cal Rayborn to Cal Crutchlow, Johnny Rea to Gino Rea In particular - Sheeney, Saarinen, Fast Freddie, Rainey, Norick; and currently Dovi and JT Favourite Track: Phillip Island, Brands, Monza, Oulton Park and to visit, Laguna Seca ![]() |
I do, but I am not going there again. What's his point Michael?...I genuinely don't understand. Motorcycle racing is replete with championships won on inferior machinery....man over machine. Look no further than Rossi at Welkome '04..the first rider to win cosequetive GP's on different machinery, going on to take the title in his first year at Yamaha at a time that the M1 was still handicapped from a lack of previous direction.. But the best example that springs to mind is '93. Had it not been for Misano, Rainey would have held Schwantz and taken a fourth title on pig of a Yam that handled like a puppy on a lead. Tom, please have a break from your exam revision and enlighten me!! I'm obviously confused. -------------------- "Buy the ticket take the ride" - Hunter S Thompson
"Stand on it until you can see God, then gently tap the brakes" - H.S.T "On a 500 you've got no engine braking. I only slide the front tyre when I get into a turn too hot, but this is how it goes: flick it in, pick up the feel of the tyre as it start moving. Then you lay it over a little bit more, the front slides and scrubs off speed. Saving a front slide is the tricky part. I use everything: the rear brake, my knee and a lot of upper body" Wayne Rainey 1991 |
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May 15 2008, 03:20 PM
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#18
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![]() Ghostrider ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,956 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Surrey, England Member No.: 188 Favourite Rider: Yuki Takahashi Favourite Track: Nordschleife ![]() |
I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean If you are to put Casey's title down to Tc, why not put all of Rossi's down to JB. Or haydens down to HRC. Its not really fair to say one rider won because he had the best equipment and not to carry that value through when others win. Each rider has to deal with their circumstances, advantages and disadvantages. They are all world champions because they maximised their oppertunities 1. tom thinks rossi only got his titles because of the rc211v 2. he forgets no other riders could get a title on it. biaggi ukawa ect didnt get near rossi on the same bike. 3.he also doesnt know rossi got a title on the nsr500 because he was still dripping off the end of his dads dick back then. 1. WRONG 2. You must have looked away when Hayden won the world title 3. WRONG |
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May 15 2008, 03:25 PM
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#19
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![]() Blue smoker ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,396 Joined: 29-April 08 Member No.: 1,705 Favourite Rider: Too many, from Cal Rayborn to Cal Crutchlow, Johnny Rea to Gino Rea In particular - Sheeney, Saarinen, Fast Freddie, Rainey, Norick; and currently Dovi and JT Favourite Track: Phillip Island, Brands, Monza, Oulton Park and to visit, Laguna Seca ![]() |
tom thinks rossi only got his titles because of the rc211v. he forgets no other riders could get a title on it. biaggi ukawa ect didnt get near rossi on the same bike. he also doesnt know rossi got a title on the nsr500 because he was still dripping off the end of his dads dick back then. He was bloody impressive in the latter half of 2000 -his debut season as well. Right -I understand now. So championships are only won purely because the best machinery was availed to the triumphant rider/driver in question - who is in fact irrelevant. He should study hard and get a job with HRC! Actually he may have a point...didn't this happen last year? - a Joke for Chrissake -------------------- "Buy the ticket take the ride" - Hunter S Thompson
"Stand on it until you can see God, then gently tap the brakes" - H.S.T "On a 500 you've got no engine braking. I only slide the front tyre when I get into a turn too hot, but this is how it goes: flick it in, pick up the feel of the tyre as it start moving. Then you lay it over a little bit more, the front slides and scrubs off speed. Saving a front slide is the tricky part. I use everything: the rear brake, my knee and a lot of upper body" Wayne Rainey 1991 |
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May 15 2008, 03:30 PM
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#20
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MotoGP Whore ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,345 Joined: 1-November 06 From: North Wales Member No.: 777 Favourite Rider: Ducati + British riders Favourite Track: Sachsenring ![]() |
tom thinks rossi only got his titles because of the rc211v. he forgets no other riders could get a title on it. biaggi ukawa ect didnt get near rossi on the same bike. he also doesnt know rossi got a title on the nsr500 because he was still dripping off the end of his dads dick back then. To be fair, who else in 02 could challenge him? I don't think anyone could put Ukawa on Rossi's level even on the best bike. What's his point Michael?...I genuinely don't understand. Motorcycle racing is replete with championships won on inferior machinery....man over machine. Look no further than Rossi at Welkome '04..the first rider to win cosequetive GP's on different machinery, going on to take the title in his first year at Yamaha at a time that the M1 was still handicapped from a lack of previous direction.. But the best example that springs to mind is '93. Had it not been for Misano, Rainey would have held Schwantz and taken a fourth title on pig of a Yam that handled like a puppy on a lead. I think his point is, since a lot of you like to flame Tom for having a differing opinion, that you don't win a championship on a 'shit bike'. I'd say that 04 was VERY good from Rossi, but I wouldn't have called the M1 the worst bike (that's reserved for the KRV5) since it seemed to be by far better in the corners and on the brakes with Rossi onboard. -------------------- http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk
For all your cafe racer (and casual!) needs. |
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